TOPIC: 2024 Rare Token Images < Part Two < NEW BIG NEWS at Post #41

Jeff Martin wrote: we are creating a new slotless type of token called Trinkets that are only usable by Druids.

Beginning with the 2024 token set, Polymorph Potions are being phased out. They're being replaced by Trinkets.

I think the reusable slotless 1/game instant is a great direction, but I don't love the name "Trinket" because it's a completely generic word that doesn't offer any thematic flavor.

If we're imagining a physical object that helps the character become a troll, the suggestion that comes most readily to mind would unfortunately be Figurine, and obviously we already have those. Statuette, perhaps? Or any kind of nature object -- even if it doesn't particularly make sense, I would rather collect Twigs or Pinecones than Trinkets.

Alternatively, the token could represent an entirely mental construct and be called something like:
Beast Shape: Troll
Beast Form: Troll
Aspect of Trollform

or instead of a whole new type, they could be class-restricted Tomes representing the knowledge of how to attain that shape (Tome of Trollform), though obviously this would NOT be as desirable if you still have plans to someday make Tomes slot-limited. If we just leave Tomes as they are, though, I like this name quite a bit.

On a different note: I know that right now very few Elf Wizards polymorph, but IMO there's a chance that could change and become a really fun thing to do if we let them use these new items -- especially at Normal difficulty where you don't need a ton of +hit and running out of spells is a real concern. Up until now I think the largest barrier was needing to spend a whole round drinking a potion, and the new items remove that barrier completely.

Jeff Martin wrote:

dokkaebi wrote: Thank you for all of the clarifications, and the change out of Charm Slot.

Under current rules, a player can bring multiple throwing hammers and use as many as combat rounds allow.

Will Trinkets be limited to one of each named Trinket per adventure? Can a Druid bring 4 Trinket of Trollform tokens and use one per combat?

I could see how the rules already cover this, but thrown weapons operate differently. And since the Trinket is a pseudo-weapon, I thought it'd be nice to get clarification.

There's no slot so you can bring as many as you wish.

Just double-checking that this answer relates to the question asked - I think the question here is regarding multiple copies of the same exact token, i.e. Charm of Trollform, rather than multiple different trinkets. Under the current rules this would not be permitted as trinkets are not a hand-held item so you cannot swap them out during a run (and like all tokens, cannot equip multiples of the same one). So if the intention is to allow multiple of the same one, it would need a specific rule adding to the PHB, and doesn't seem like a desirable rule to have since it will potentially mean Druids have to collect and physically carry up to five copies of each polymorph trinket printed from now on?

Jeff Martin wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Impy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Trinkets can only be used by Druids?

So Wizards won’t be getting polymorphism support any longer?

I wanna say I support if they don't and would be cool to see them get a spell book mechanic or something in the redesign

It opens up elf wizard to go a completely different direction. Will be interesting to see where they take the class. I would expect it to be something sufficiently different from human wizard to justify the second class card.

The general idea floating around my head is to make the Elf Wizard much different than the Wizard -- more combat oriented.

It'd be extremely cool to see Elf Wizard become more of a spell blade kind of class, like elven bladesingers in DND.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

ini wrote: This seems like a good change. Any chance we can generalize this to each class for whatever future class thing they might get? Eg. Clerics have holy symbols, druids have poly stuff, bards have instruments, etc.

If I follow, you're suggesting that holy symbols would occupy the trinket slot and all holy symbols would be single class cleric? Rogue tools would occupy the trinket slot and all be single class rogue?

Sounds like a good way and good time to wrap a number of these single class slotless tokens into a slot.

I like this idea! Thanks for the suggestion. Help us remember it when it comes time to fill out the tokendb.com in a month or so.

Jeff, I see some complications with this. Rogue has several Rogue-Only tokens, while Clerics have been limited to just one Holy Symbol I think. I'm guessing/hoping that Druids will be allowed to have multiple different Trinkets since each is just once per room. It might be best to keep the Trinket terminology to just Druids, Clerics can have Symbols, etc.

Jeff Martin wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Impy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Trinkets can only be used by Druids?

So Wizards won’t be getting polymorphism support any longer?

I wanna say I support if they don't and would be cool to see them get a spell book mechanic or something in the redesign

It opens up elf wizard to go a completely different direction. Will be interesting to see where they take the class. I would expect it to be something sufficiently different from human wizard to justify the second class card.

The general idea floating around my head is to make the Elf Wizard much different than the Wizard -- more combat oriented.

Jeff, that sounds great! I like that the class redesign is going to give the different classes unique identities and abilities. I like that the Druids will be the only shape-shifting class, as Polymorph has increasingly been their identity, including the sole focus of their Class Relic and Legendary.

Iross wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

dokkaebi wrote: Thank you for all of the clarifications, and the change out of Charm Slot.

Under current rules, a player can bring multiple throwing hammers and use as many as combat rounds allow.

Will Trinkets be limited to one of each named Trinket per adventure? Can a Druid bring 4 Trinket of Trollform tokens and use one per combat?

I could see how the rules already cover this, but thrown weapons operate differently. And since the Trinket is a pseudo-weapon, I thought it'd be nice to get clarification.

There's no slot so you can bring as many as you wish.

Just double-checking that this answer relates to the question asked - I think the question here is regarding multiple copies of the same exact token, i.e. Charm of Trollform, rather than multiple different trinkets. Under the current rules this would not be permitted as trinkets are not a hand-held item so you cannot swap them out during a run (and like all tokens, cannot equip multiples of the same one). So if the intention is to allow multiple of the same one, it would need a specific rule adding to the PHB, and doesn't seem like a desirable rule to have since it will potentially mean Druids have to collect and physically carry up to five copies of each polymorph trinket printed from now on?

+1 to all of this.

Adding two cents - It's much more interesting if druids without Iktomi's could only take any specific trinket-form once/game. It opens up considerations as to which form should be taken in any given room, and becomes a puzzle to figure out how to optimize your trinket-forms.

Allowing a stack, a-la thrown weapons like hammers, takes away some in-game decision making. Allowing Iktomi's users to get multiple uses out of Trinkets across rooms would make it feel more rewarding to have the class necklace.

dokkaebi wrote:

Iross wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

dokkaebi wrote: Thank you for all of the clarifications, and the change out of Charm Slot.

Under current rules, a player can bring multiple throwing hammers and use as many as combat rounds allow.

Will Trinkets be limited to one of each named Trinket per adventure? Can a Druid bring 4 Trinket of Trollform tokens and use one per combat?

I could see how the rules already cover this, but thrown weapons operate differently. And since the Trinket is a pseudo-weapon, I thought it'd be nice to get clarification.

There's no slot so you can bring as many as you wish.

Just double-checking that this answer relates to the question asked - I think the question here is regarding multiple copies of the same exact token, i.e. Charm of Trollform, rather than multiple different trinkets. Under the current rules this would not be permitted as trinkets are not a hand-held item so you cannot swap them out during a run (and like all tokens, cannot equip multiples of the same one). So if the intention is to allow multiple of the same one, it would need a specific rule adding to the PHB, and doesn't seem like a desirable rule to have since it will potentially mean Druids have to collect and physically carry up to five copies of each polymorph trinket printed from now on?

+1 to all of this.

Adding two cents - It's much more interesting if druids without Iktomi's could only take any specific trinket-form once/game. It opens up considerations as to which form should be taken in any given room, and becomes a puzzle to figure out how to optimize your trinket-forms.

Allowing a stack, a-la thrown weapons like hammers, takes away some in-game decision making. Allowing Iktomi's users to get multiple uses out of Trinkets across rooms would make it feel more rewarding to have the class necklace.

Allowing a stack is also a stealth nerf to Iktomi's, effectively allowing any Druid (at the Rare level!) to cast while polymorphed so long as they have sufficient copies of a trinket to last each room and sufficient trinkets overall to last the entire dungeon.

Going to put in the suggestion of "Carving" versus "Trinket" for those looking for something more thematic.

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Allowing a stack is also a stealth nerf to Iktomi's, effectively allowing any Druid (at the Rare level!) to cast while polymorphed so long as they have sufficient copies of a trinket to last each room and sufficient trinkets overall to last the entire dungeon.

I believe that the one form/room combined with Jeff's comments in post #41 cover your concern:

Jeff Martin wrote: Even within the same room, a Trinket may only be used once per game. If for some reason you choose to end the polymorph early, you may not transform back into that creature.

I still think limiting Trinket-forms to once/dungeon for Druids without Iktomi's is appropriate.

Owners of Iktomi's probably wouldn't need to take the same Trinket-form more than once/dungeon, but giving the legendary necklace the flexibility to allow it seems like it would be cool and create a perk for folks who crafted it.

dokkaebi wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Allowing a stack is also a stealth nerf to Iktomi's, effectively allowing any Druid (at the Rare level!) to cast while polymorphed so long as they have sufficient copies of a trinket to last each room and sufficient trinkets overall to last the entire dungeon.

I believe that the one form/room combined with Jeff's comments in post #41 cover your concern:

Jeff Martin wrote: Even within the same room, a Trinket may only be used once per game. If for some reason you choose to end the polymorph early, you may not transform back into that creature.

I still think limiting Trinket-forms to once/dungeon for Druids without Iktomi's is appropriate.

Owners of Iktomi's probably wouldn't need to take the same Trinket-form more than once/dungeon, but giving the legendary necklace the flexibility to allow it seems like it would be cool and create a perk for folks who crafted it.

It would only be fair for all classes to be limited similarly. This however would be a huge turnoff to TD.

Daniel White wrote: Going to put in the suggestion of "Carving" versus "Trinket" for those looking for something more thematic.

I could go for that, it feels Druid-y.

dokkaebi wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Allowing a stack is also a stealth nerf to Iktomi's, effectively allowing any Druid (at the Rare level!) to cast while polymorphed so long as they have sufficient copies of a trinket to last each room and sufficient trinkets overall to last the entire dungeon.

I believe that the one form/room combined with Jeff's comments in post #41 cover your concern:

Jeff Martin wrote: Even within the same room, a Trinket may only be used once per game. If for some reason you choose to end the polymorph early, you may not transform back into that creature.

I still think limiting Trinket-forms to once/dungeon for Druids without Iktomi's is appropriate.

Owners of Iktomi's probably wouldn't need to take the same Trinket-form more than once/dungeon, but giving the legendary necklace the flexibility to allow it seems like it would be cool and create a perk for folks who crafted it.

I'm not sure that does answer the question. Even though that trinket can't be used again in that room, it isn't clear if another of the same trinket token could or couldn't also be be used in that same room. I would recommend not, so that a Druid can't alternate between polymorphing and other actions such as spell casting. Unless the class card revision makes that irrelevant by allowing actions while polymorphing.