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TOPIC: 2024 Token FAQ < Part Two

2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #13

Most multi-year tokens are a combination or middle ground of their constituent parts; for example, the Arcanum Shirt is +2 STR, DEX, CON, Focus while each individual items is +3 to one of those with some drawback. If the constituent parts of the Arcanum Greaves will be -2 elemental, -2 Melee, -2 Missile, -2 Spell, then just -2 to all damage types is reasonably strong; no need to bump it up to -3. For a recent example of how strong it can be, consider VTD 2022 Wonder effect: -4 from all non-Fire damage was insanely powerful, even for a ring/neck slot, and the proposed Arcanum Greaves would be almost the same power for a slot with much fewer competitive options.

That said, there's a critical flaw in the proposed path: Stalker’s Greaves , a Treasure Box rare, currently grants -2 Spell damage in the same slot. A UR that does the same thing will likely not be well received!

Maybe instead, we can have -2 elemental, -2 Melee, -2 Ranged, and +5 Retribution, which combine into a single token that grants -2 to all damage and +5 Retribution? Retribution is a defensive ability (kinda) so fits the theme of the slot. Kvothe's Bloodless is -4 Ranged as a slotless; and while we have a belt and cloak that grants +10 retribution, both those slots are more powerful than the greaves slot. Consider that the back slot has a Shaed , so -2 Melee and Ranged (but not elemental) is worth 10 retribution!

Given that a 2023 token is retroactively being declared part of a multi-year transmute, is there concern budget spenders may need to spend more than anticipated to stay current with multi-year UR transmutes? Should the Greaves of Absorption be considered for reprint in 2027 (with both the 2023 and 2027 versions equally eligible for transmuting into Arcanum Greaves) with no new multi-year token printed that year?
Cleric main / Druid secondary
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #14

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Given that a 2023 token is retroactively being declared part of a multi-year transmute, is there concern budget spenders may need to spend more than anticipated to stay current with multi-year UR transmutes? Should the Greaves of Absorption be considered for reprint in 2027 (with both the 2023 and 2027 versions equally eligible for transmuting into Arcanum Greaves) with no new multi-year token printed that year?


I am not sure the best way to alleviate it, but two multi-year ingredient ultra-rares in the same year is definitely an unexpected pinch.
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #15

Michael wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Given that a 2023 token is retroactively being declared part of a multi-year transmute, is there concern budget spenders may need to spend more than anticipated to stay current with multi-year UR transmutes? Should the Greaves of Absorption be considered for reprint in 2027 (with both the 2023 and 2027 versions equally eligible for transmuting into Arcanum Greaves) with no new multi-year token printed that year?


I am not sure the best way to alleviate it, but two multi-year ingredient ultra-rares in the same year is definitely an unexpected pinch.


quote]]


It isn’t a problem since the 2023 token will be a PYP next year as well. It would have only been an issue if the required token was last year in print.

Fred
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #16

Fred K wrote:

Michael wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Given that a 2023 token is retroactively being declared part of a multi-year transmute, is there concern budget spenders may need to spend more than anticipated to stay current with multi-year UR transmutes? Should the Greaves of Absorption be considered for reprint in 2027 (with both the 2023 and 2027 versions equally eligible for transmuting into Arcanum Greaves) with no new multi-year token printed that year?


I am not sure the best way to alleviate it, but two multi-year ingredient ultra-rares in the same year is definitely an unexpected pinch.


quote]]


It isn’t a problem since the 2023 token will be a PYP next year as well. It would have only been an issue if the required token was last year in print.

Fred


Some people budget their annual TD spend. For those people having one year with a URTE and a Arcanum transmute that are both going out of print, and a 2nd Arcanum piece all up for grabs all at one may be an issue, compared to if those tokens were available over 2 years.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #17

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Michael wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Given that a 2023 token is retroactively being declared part of a multi-year transmute, is there concern budget spenders may need to spend more than anticipated to stay current with multi-year UR transmutes? Should the Greaves of Absorption be considered for reprint in 2027 (with both the 2023 and 2027 versions equally eligible for transmuting into Arcanum Greaves) with no new multi-year token printed that year?


I am not sure the best way to alleviate it, but two multi-year ingredient ultra-rares in the same year is definitely an unexpected pinch.


quote]]


It isn’t a problem since the 2023 token will be a PYP next year as well. It would have only been an issue if the required token was last year in print.

Fred


Some people budget their annual TD spend. For those people having one year with a URTE and a Arcanum transmute that are both going out of print, and a 2nd Arcanum piece all up for grabs all at one may be an issue, compared to if those tokens were available over 2 years.


I would have to agree… they have been Ava for 3 months plus an additional 1-2 in pre order stage. They should have 6/7 months left in market year 2023 but for those that are like you have mentioned, may have already spent what they budgeted and aren’t expecting any more. My only other concern besides this one really being lackluster as a -2 dmg arcanum ( which is the same thing we have now in the greaves of absorption, minus the set bonus ) is since this is being put into a 4 piece set, will others know about it if they are not actively reading the forums.

I tend to air on the side that it’s okay, considering that this is the 1st UR in this slot, useable by all classes. It’s only available 2023 so I would bet most have it in there budget vs not since it’s currently BiS and will be until the arcanum one is finished. This is all based on the assumption that most will have bought it as the 1st UR in slot, but if not and they were waiting for the 3 for the arcanum set, then they may be in for a shock when the 2023 are in there as a 4th.

Im also kinda torn, it’s currently projected as a -3 dmg reduction which some have said is too powerful, but if it’s only a -2 then the current 2023 absorption are just as good outside the set bonus for arcanum. ( current offers - 2 from 6 different types. Eldritch can be excluded since it’s unblockable )
Last edit: by Tyraël The Just.
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #18

In addition to the other concerns, the Greaves of Absorption are also already an ingredient in Vim's. Does it make sense to have the same UR needed for two different recipes?
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #19

Fiddy wrote: In addition to the other concerns, the Greaves of Absorption are also already an ingredient in Vim's. Does it make sense to have the same UR needed for two different recipes?


I didn’t even think about that, I know vims was kinda a low transmute due to the bead granting free movement. Maybe as the best slot fills it will become more useable but idk, I’d still rather use my 4 winds boots
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #20

Fiddy wrote: In addition to the other concerns, the Greaves of Absorption are also already an ingredient in Vim's. Does it make sense to have the same UR needed for two different recipes?

I don’t think Vim is going to be a high demand legendary. It’s probably not going to pull a lot of greaves at this time. If things change regarding the desirability of AC, it looks like the Omni orb will be able to cover it.
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #21

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Michael wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Given that a 2023 token is retroactively being declared part of a multi-year transmute, is there concern budget spenders may need to spend more than anticipated to stay current with multi-year UR transmutes? Should the Greaves of Absorption be considered for reprint in 2027 (with both the 2023 and 2027 versions equally eligible for transmuting into Arcanum Greaves) with no new multi-year token printed that year?


I am not sure the best way to alleviate it, but two multi-year ingredient ultra-rares in the same year is definitely an unexpected pinch.


quote]]


It isn’t a problem since the 2023 token will be a PYP next year as well. It would have only been an issue if the required token was last year in print.

Fred


Some people budget their annual TD spend. For those people having one year with a URTE and a Arcanum transmute that are both going out of print, and a 2nd Arcanum piece all up for grabs all at one may be an issue, compared to if those tokens were available over 2 years.


They would still run into the same issue for those years that a TE and an Arcanum is in print. You'd just be kicking the can down the road again. Example, Arcanum piece component 24, 25, 26. There is already a TE planned for 25 so they would have the same issue during that time? There are 18 months to acquire the greaves for transmute I think that is more than enough time.

I still like greaves as they are currently with a set of 4 and -3 DR. Keeps with the current DR of the slot and grants a benefit for having a multi year transmute. There is also a follower planned for Shin slots so you aren't essentially slot locked at top end.
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #22

Kusig wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Michael wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Given that a 2023 token is retroactively being declared part of a multi-year transmute, is there concern budget spenders may need to spend more than anticipated to stay current with multi-year UR transmutes? Should the Greaves of Absorption be considered for reprint in 2027 (with both the 2023 and 2027 versions equally eligible for transmuting into Arcanum Greaves) with no new multi-year token printed that year?


I am not sure the best way to alleviate it, but two multi-year ingredient ultra-rares in the same year is definitely an unexpected pinch.


quote]]


It isn’t a problem since the 2023 token will be a PYP next year as well. It would have only been an issue if the required token was last year in print.

Fred


Some people budget their annual TD spend. For those people having one year with a URTE and a Arcanum transmute that are both going out of print, and a 2nd Arcanum piece all up for grabs all at one may be an issue, compared to if those tokens were available over 2 years.


They would still run into the same issue for those years that a TE and an Arcanum is in print. You'd just be kicking the can down the road again. Example, Arcanum piece component 24, 25, 26. There is already a TE planned for 25 so they would have the same issue during that time? There are 18 months to acquire the greaves for transmute I think that is more than enough time.

I still like greaves as they are currently with a set of 4 and -3 DR. Keeps with the current DR of the slot and grants a benefit for having a multi year transmute. There is also a follower planned for Shin slots so you aren't essentially slot locked at top end.


When I first wrote the question, I was imagining someone whose budget was one PYP (for the multi-year token) per year + URTE every other, as that is the historical trend so far. The proposed plan would require an additional PYP outside of that plan.
Cleric main / Druid secondary
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #23

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

Kusig wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Michael wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Given that a 2023 token is retroactively being declared part of a multi-year transmute, is there concern budget spenders may need to spend more than anticipated to stay current with multi-year UR transmutes? Should the Greaves of Absorption be considered for reprint in 2027 (with both the 2023 and 2027 versions equally eligible for transmuting into Arcanum Greaves) with no new multi-year token printed that year?


I am not sure the best way to alleviate it, but two multi-year ingredient ultra-rares in the same year is definitely an unexpected pinch.


quote]]


It isn’t a problem since the 2023 token will be a PYP next year as well. It would have only been an issue if the required token was last year in print.

Fred


Some people budget their annual TD spend. For those people having one year with a URTE and a Arcanum transmute that are both going out of print, and a 2nd Arcanum piece all up for grabs all at one may be an issue, compared to if those tokens were available over 2 years.


They would still run into the same issue for those years that a TE and an Arcanum is in print. You'd just be kicking the can down the road again. Example, Arcanum piece component 24, 25, 26. There is already a TE planned for 25 so they would have the same issue during that time? There are 18 months to acquire the greaves for transmute I think that is more than enough time.

I still like greaves as they are currently with a set of 4 and -3 DR. Keeps with the current DR of the slot and grants a benefit for having a multi year transmute. There is also a follower planned for Shin slots so you aren't essentially slot locked at top end.


When I first wrote the question, I was imagining someone whose budget was one PYP (for the multi-year token) per year + URTE every other, as that is the historical trend so far. The proposed plan would require an additional PYP outside of that plan.


If they want the Arcanum greaves their PYP for 2024 would be 2023 Greaves of Absorption in that case. They end up making the set a year later I still don't see the issue.
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2024 Token FAQ < Part Two 1 year 3 months ago #24

Kusig wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

Kusig wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Michael wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Given that a 2023 token is retroactively being declared part of a multi-year transmute, is there concern budget spenders may need to spend more than anticipated to stay current with multi-year UR transmutes? Should the Greaves of Absorption be considered for reprint in 2027 (with both the 2023 and 2027 versions equally eligible for transmuting into Arcanum Greaves) with no new multi-year token printed that year?


I am not sure the best way to alleviate it, but two multi-year ingredient ultra-rares in the same year is definitely an unexpected pinch.


quote]]


It isn’t a problem since the 2023 token will be a PYP next year as well. It would have only been an issue if the required token was last year in print.

Fred


Some people budget their annual TD spend. For those people having one year with a URTE and a Arcanum transmute that are both going out of print, and a 2nd Arcanum piece all up for grabs all at one may be an issue, compared to if those tokens were available over 2 years.


They would still run into the same issue for those years that a TE and an Arcanum is in print. You'd just be kicking the can down the road again. Example, Arcanum piece component 24, 25, 26. There is already a TE planned for 25 so they would have the same issue during that time? There are 18 months to acquire the greaves for transmute I think that is more than enough time.

I still like greaves as they are currently with a set of 4 and -3 DR. Keeps with the current DR of the slot and grants a benefit for having a multi year transmute. There is also a follower planned for Shin slots so you aren't essentially slot locked at top end.


When I first wrote the question, I was imagining someone whose budget was one PYP (for the multi-year token) per year + URTE every other, as that is the historical trend so far. The proposed plan would require an additional PYP outside of that plan.


If they want the Arcanum greaves their PYP for 2024 would be 2023 Greaves of Absorption in that case. They end up making the set a year later I still don't see the issue.


It isn’t that complicated.

Under one scenario the 4 tokens needed to be purchased for the arcanum transmute are spread out over 5 years:

2024-5 the 1st token
2025-6 the 2nd token
2026-7 the 3rd token
2027-8 the 4th token

To get them all you need to buy 4 URs over 5 years, 2024-2028.

Under the current scenario, the 4 tokens needing to be purchased will be purchased over 4 years for people who have already spent their 2023 budget:

2024 for the 1st token
2024-5 for the 2nd token
2025-6 for the 3rd token
2026-7 for the 4th token.

To get them all you need to buy 4 URs over 4 years (assuming your 2023 token spend is already completed).

4 years is less than 5 years, and therefore more demanding on peoples budgets.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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