TOPIC: 2024 Transmuted Token Images < Part Two

Speaking as a person who usually plays 5th Level Barbarian, adding the current UR Greaves to my regular Class DR has been pretty fun. A Relic worth of DR added on, also sounds like fun.

Honestly the only reason I would consider making the greaves would be for the set bonus. I agree that the 2023 UR greaves could use some love but IMO this is definitely the arcanum item I'm least excited about so far. I understand its probably meant to be comparable to something like the supreme ring but it still feels like it needs something a little different from just +1 more DR to make it special.

Maybe something like -2 DR to any dmg that can be reduced, and freedom of movement or cannot be surprised. In the case of freedom of movement so people wouldnt have to feel bad about loosing luckey traveler in a few years.

Or maybe -2 DR, they dont stack with any other DR greaves, and they become slotless/grant another greeves slot so having a large investment into the arcanum doesn't lock the greeves slot going forward.

I kind of like the second one better. IMO effectively slot locking by having an eldritched level item in a slot just drives the need for more slot expansion later, which isn't great.

Picc wrote: I kind of like the second one better. IMO effectively slot locking by having an eldritched level item in a slot just drives the need for more slot expansion later, which isn't great.

I disagree. It’s actually OK to have the best of something in a slot and just be complete. I’m content with boots and legs locked with eldrich, and feel no need for an expander in those slots.

FWIW, my main build is a 5th Level Barbarian, and I'd have no problems having a -2 or -3 "everything but push, puzzle and eldritch" transmute in a few years. The base DR is only 1 point. It would be great to have a little more, especially at NM/Epic, and especially if I don't have to think about "wait, is that damage type one of the ones my greaves reduce or not?"

Endgame wrote:

Picc wrote: I kind of like the second one better. IMO effectively slot locking by having an eldritched level item in a slot just drives the need for more slot expansion later, which isn't great.

I disagree. It’s actually OK to have the best of something in a slot and just be complete. I’m content with boots and legs locked with eldrich, and feel no need for an expander in those slots.

I honestly did not expect that response from you but ok fair. I wouldnt lobby to change those slots, to much money has already changed hands there. That said I'm not sure it's the best practice going forward.

I understand why the bead expander was pushed for future iteration, but I was hoping to see some more workshopping on it. I thought I'd share this idea for progression in case it spurs any ideas in the future:

UR Beaded Earcuff: +2 Beads
Relic Beaded Earcuff of Orbits: +2 Beads & +1 Ioun Stone
Legendary ____'s Beaded Earcuff of Orbits: +2 Beads & +2 Ioun Stone

In my opinion the pros:
* Compromise of the possibility of legendary ioun stone expander from last year along with a bead expander while not maxing out the ioun stone slots in a single token
* Limits the number of new slots added overall while giving a new progression to work on
* At the UR level it gives a very good variety of options to choose from in the earcuff slot for picking what you want to expand the most
* Adds beads but would leave the door open to another bead slot expander in the future which wouldn't necessarily need a transmute path if the max number of beads is intended to be higher
* If the intention is to create an eventual mythic merging slot expanders like I believe I saw hints about I think this would be a compelling component

The cons:
* I suspect the UR bead slot expander is the best compared to similar offerings for ioun stones and charms
* The transmutes may not stack well with their UR equivalents so it may need to state you may not equip the lower tier

I agree. I like the greaves as proposed.

More DR is good.

Set bonus I'm sure will be great.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I agree. I like the greaves as proposed.

More DR is good.

Set bonus I'm sure will be great.

I agree current 4 greaves transmute is my preference.

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Picc wrote: I kind of like the second one better. IMO effectively slot locking by having an eldritched level item in a slot just drives the need for more slot expansion later, which isn't great.

I disagree. It’s actually OK to have the best of something in a slot and just be complete. I’m content with boots and legs locked with eldrich, and feel no need for an expander in those slots.

I honestly did not expect that response from you but ok fair. I wouldnt lobby to change those slots, to much money has already changed hands there. That said I'm not sure it's the best practice going forward.

Ah, to be completely clear, i love having options at each slot. If I can’t have equal but different options, I’ll live with one BIS option. The worst case would either be creep or an expander.

For example: I’d love for a boot Option that really made me wonder if i wanted it or 4 winds. At one point last year the legendary boots basically ignored everything (surprise, maze, free action, and more). Boots that ignored all hinderances had my attention as potential competition for 4 winds.

If I can’t have equal but different, I’d rather 4 winds stay the best boots ever than get a boots expander or have +7 damage, +3 Healing boots released as a legendary. (Mythic 1 May be a different discussion.).

The current and previous sword implementations are just an improved Welfor's, which with Omni devices come out, it would make sense to just fully replace the token or leave it as is. Yes it limits to Fighter only but Paladin has Ava's and Barbarian's will use a 2H, which basically limits it to a flexible Fighter only weapon.

Crit expansion to 18 would be nice but complicates things for DMs. With Mythic's coming in 2026, I would rather see Welfor's receive a boost in that avenue and this weapon be used as an alternate style to fighter. If every class going forward is going to receive a new legendary weapon than why not add a unique ability and treat it lick class neck slots.

The implementation of a riposte ability would be cool... 1/game free attack on miss, but seems hard to implement in person. I would think a Rally/Inspire ability would provide more party value, like a polar opposite of prayer, +2 Melee (or all) Damage for party and immunity to sleep 1/game. With Welfor's as a foundation the wheel would need to be lowered to balance or it just instantly outclasses Welfor's.

If Kilgor's + Welfor's will be required for a mythic sword than cool, or if in class design fighter's can now dual wield (doesn't fully harmonize with neck) but still cool. It just currently feels like a 1 to 1 replacement of Welfor's when Omni tokens are designed to make it more accessible to everyone.

Wiltey wrote: The current and previous sword implementations are just an improved Welfor's, which with Omni devices come out, it would make sense to just fully replace the token or leave it as is. Yes it limits to Fighter only but Paladin has Ava's and Barbarian's will use a 2H, which basically limits it to a flexible Fighter only weapon.

Crit expansion to 18 would be nice but complicates things for DMs. With Mythic's coming in 2026, I would rather see Welfor's receive a boost in that avenue and this weapon be used as an alternate style to fighter. If every class going forward is going to receive a new legendary weapon than why not add a unique ability and treat it lick class neck slots.

The implementation of a riposte ability would be cool... 1/game free attack on miss, but seems hard to implement in person. I would think a Rally/Inspire ability would provide more party value, like a polar opposite of prayer, +2 Melee (or all) Damage for party and immunity to sleep 1/game. With Welfor's as a foundation the wheel would need to be lowered to balance or it just instantly outclasses Welfor's.

If Kilgor's + Welfor's will be required for a mythic sword than cool, or if in class design fighter's can now dual wield (doesn't fully harmonize with neck) but still cool. It just currently feels like a 1 to 1 replacement of Welfor's when Omni tokens are designed to make it more accessible to everyone.

Give fighter's dual weild during Class Re-design and make Kilgor's + Welfor's a set with a bonus.

Endgame wrote:

edwin wrote: Crit range of 19-20 is consistent with previous years token development where folks pointed out 18-20 crit range was too powerful and too easy to slide. The 19-20 crit range is what has been the new normal for a while now.

19-20 is available to fighters as a rare level neck and as an ability on the class legendary. For a general use sword across lots of classes, expanded Crit range makes some sense, for fighters it has very limited appeal.

Damage wheel when adding in dex bonus essentially becomes 30 to 40 plus the range and missile damage bonuses for the legendary. This is significant power creep and removes the limitation of the fighter legendary necklace being melee focused.

I would be for an expanded crit range of 18-20 if the dex bonus is removed from the token and the damage wheel is reduced by 3 for the high end values.