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TOPIC: 2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES !

2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #13

Graphics feedback: "The Ring of Psychic Mastery" has a white spot in the middle that looks odd, like part of the picture is missing.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #14

Impy wrote:
Gloves: Do these apply to bows, crossbows and two handed melee wepaons? If so I really like them, nice to see those types get a much needed boost! Though the relic increase from UR is really sad. I'd up damage of relic and legendary by 1 each


This is an important point, I think it's difficult to assess these tokens without knowing if the gloves are intended to boost both Ranged and Melee or not. If they are meant to boost both, I wonder if the tokens proposed are borderline too good.... although it's really hard to say given that there's currently not much incentive to make a build which is proficient at both Ranged and Melee.

It might be best to avoid the potential future risk entirely by making them either Melee-only or Ranged-only, since they would still be worthy of Relic and Legendary power levels even then, as well as freeing up design space for a future set of gloves which boosts the other combat mode.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current Rogue Build
Last edit: by Iross.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #15

Iross wrote:

Impy wrote:
Gloves: Do these apply to bows, crossbows and two handed melee wepaons? If so I really like them, nice to see those types get a much needed boost! Though the relic increase from UR is really sad. I'd up damage of relic and legendary by 1 each


This is an important point, I think it's difficult to assess these tokens without knowing if the gloves are intended to boost both Ranged and Melee or not. If they are meant to boost both, I wonder if the tokens proposed are borderline too good.... although it's really hard to say given that there's currently not much incentive to make a build which is proficient at both Ranged and Melee.

It might be best to avoid the potential future risk entirely by making them either Melee-only or Ranged-only, since they would still be worthy of Relic and Legendary power levels even then, as well as freeing up design space for a future set of gloves which boosts the other combat mode.

Dungeon design should give the motivation to build for both melee and Ranged. I’ve seen a number of Thors builds that can play either way, though with a preference toward one or the other usually.

The one advantage these gloves have over the hit gloves is the tokens they c replace are quite old, gloves of greater Archery and gauntlets of linked fury are like 9 years old at this point (archery is a little newer iirc). These gloves don’t even supersede greater Archery since they only work on 2H damage instead of all Missile damage.

As a final stopping point for the transmute, they should probably be 1 damage more at relic and legendary, but I’m happier with this iteration than the last 2.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #16

OrionW wrote: I think the +4 is a good trade off for the higher crit. 18+ crit is almost too good as there are going to be some very generous sliding boards.

I could see dropping the crit and going with a +8 hit for true synergy with power attack when using Viv’s, but that would be a different weapon entirely.


As a fighter, I am not interested on more +hit, with group bonuses currently 10 power attack is fairly reasonable when you are at the level of using legendary tokens. 5% crit chance is basically the only benefit at this point over Welfor's with an updated damage wheel. Do you really need to -1 hit for 5% crit chance and +4 damage when this is supposed to be the new generation of weapons?
Will
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #17

From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #18

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.


I agree, Melee only seems very thematically correct for these gloves.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #19

I really like where both the Savage Sword and the Greater Gloves ended up.

I'm excited to think about 2 handed builds - especially I think this makes ranged Bards, Rangers, and Rogues a lot more interesting, while keeping 2-handed heavy armor classes interested.

The Relic +3 savage sword would also be fine at +2 to hit (gaining crit on 19 over the UR, following relic +2 Keen Slayer Bow).
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #20

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.


I agree, Melee only seems very thematically correct for these gloves.


I think the issue with melee only is that we already have Surtr’s, so if they need to go melee or range, we are probably due a range legendary.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #21

Graven wrote:

Wiltey wrote: Going from +4 to hit vs +5 to hit for an expanded crit range only makes sense if the legendary neck did not already provide 19-20 crit range. +5 still seems fine to me personally.

+1

For the class specific Legendary, this version of the sword is less exciting with the drop to +4, also losing an ability, and still overriding the ability of the class specific necklace.

It's also the only +4 melee Legendary

Maybe:
Back to +5
18-20 crit
Requires 20 STR


The STR requirement for that would be essentially meaningless - it's hard to imagine a scenario where this item is equipped on a character with a STR of 19 or less.

If a change were to be made of this kind, either the STR requirement would have to go way up to be relevant, or should be dropped just to avoid complications for app people/coaches/etc. that have no substantial in game implications.

That being said, +4 to hit is fine given the increase to crit range and is in line with Legendary IO's and pretty much all keen weapons at UR+.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #22

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.


I agree, Melee only seems very thematically correct for these gloves.


If there is a change here, change the theme, not the gloves.

Two handed melee only boosting gloves are basically only for Barbarians, each other class has strong reasons to not play two handed melee at legendary:

Bard: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Cleric & Druid: Prevents them from using Drue's Baton of Focus

Fighters: Prevents them from using Kilgor's, and reduces one of the benefits of Vivs

Monk: No good 2 handed melee weapons, disables Flurry of Blows

Paladin: Prevents them from using Ava's, fights thematic desire to use a shield and mechanical desire to have an armor set bonus.

Ranger: Can't use 2 handed melee weapons

Rogue: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Wizards: I suppose for extremely niche cases of Polymorph focused Wizards this is a decent item? But probably they would still rather have +4 to STR gloves because they will need a lot of melee to-hit bonuses ot be effective.

However by including ranged, these tokens offer interesting outlets for:

Ranged: Bards, Druids, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, and even potentially Mystic Stave using Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizards.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #23

Wiltey wrote:

OrionW wrote: I think the +4 is a good trade off for the higher crit. 18+ crit is almost too good as there are going to be some very generous sliding boards.

I could see dropping the crit and going with a +8 hit for true synergy with power attack when using Viv’s, but that would be a different weapon entirely.


As a fighter, I am not interested on more +hit, with group bonuses currently 10 power attack is fairly reasonable when you are at the level of using legendary tokens. 5% crit chance is basically the only benefit at this point over Welfor's with an updated damage wheel. Do you really need to -1 hit for 5% crit chance and +4 damage when this is supposed to be the new generation of weapons?


Not every fighter has Viv's already, and this token gives newer Fighters some choices about what legendary to build.

Crit on 18 doesn't amount to 5% in the app rollers (which are weighted) - it could be more or less though so I think your point there is good.

However in live play, for skilled sliders, the difference between needing to hit a 19-20 versus a 18-20 is a substantial benefit that could contribute much more than 1 additional crit per 20 slides.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #24

Note for future recipes: If TD wanted to be generous they could use the UR Gauntlets of Linked Fury which are strictly worse than the new UR Gloves of the Gladiator as an alternate/optional ingredient in the Relic Gloves transmute.
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