TOPIC: 2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES !

Lequinian wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wiltey wrote:

OrionW wrote: I think the +4 is a good trade off for the higher crit. 18+ crit is almost too good as there are going to be some very generous sliding boards.

I could see dropping the crit and going with a +8 hit for true synergy with power attack when using Viv’s, but that would be a different weapon entirely.

As a fighter, I am not interested on more +hit, with group bonuses currently 10 power attack is fairly reasonable when you are at the level of using legendary tokens. 5% crit chance is basically the only benefit at this point over Welfor's with an updated damage wheel. Do you really need to -1 hit for 5% crit chance and +4 damage when this is supposed to be the new generation of weapons?

Not every fighter has Viv's already, and this token gives newer Fighters some choices about what legendary to build.

Crit on 18 doesn't amount to 5% in the app rollers (which are weighted) - it could be more or less though so I think your point there is good.

However in live play, for skilled sliders, the difference between needing to hit a 19-20 versus a 18-20 is a substantial benefit that could contribute much more than 1 additional crit per 20 slides.

One last plea before it goes super duper final…

As a HF, I understand going in that i can’t compete on damage. Endgame will throw up charts, but in my experience Barbarian, melee ranger, and monk all hit harder. DF at least get taunt and retribution builds. More hit when I already max power attack and more damage which will get eclipsed.

+4 is an unnecessary downgrade and the 18-20 crit range is nice, but its just some damage. We’re already having requests to add Barbarian and Paladin. When we get to theirs weapons they’ll be Kilgor’s dame plus some plus banish evil outsider or something.

I think synergy with Viv’s and / or a unique identity for Legendary Fighter (human preferably) is not a bad thing. Kilgor’s should stand on its own, but there is nothing wrong with letting the two pieces work together.

Alternative: +5, same wheel. 19-20 (18-20 with Viv’s). DF: Taunt 2 monsters instead of 1. HF: whirlwind - attack first target as normal, but may deal sword’s damage to everything in room (not bonuses).

This gives DF a defensive identity and additional option at high level play. This gives HF an offensive identity. Barb hits one thing credibly hard, HF is a walking fireball. This only rarely comes up, but let’s them do something cool when it does.

(Keeping the bonus for every creature after the first (or second with double strike) is way to good. )
(I prefer the +1 to Viv’s double strike, but that didn’t go anywhere on previous suggestions.)
(+8 heal is much better than the +1 originally suggested, but I’d be hacking furniture after combat to reload)

+ 1
I can understand wanting a weapon all to your own class, Paladins have Ava’s so I can understand. Idk what powers or any know how on what I’d how to balance but I’m all for it staying as a Fighter only weapon With possibly class skill. I’m not sure, Fighters have vivs giving them buffs so I’m not sure wether the plan is to synergize them or to make them stand alone… or both. Don’t envy being to big guy making the final choices! Thanks everyone for all the hard work !

Just since the death knight set is getting some love.

What would people think of these gloves being part of the death knight set?

IMO thematically it works because these gloves are so similar in function to the UR deathknight gauthlets (+dmg vs +strength) plus it would make it technically possible to get a full death knight set bonus with this years tokens (if the cloak goes through)

Picc wrote: Just since the death knight set is getting some love.

What would people think of these gloves being part of the death knight set?

IMO thematically it works because these gloves are so similar in function to the UR deathknight gauthlets (+dmg vs +strength) plus it would make it technically possible to get a full death knight set bonus with this years tokens (if the cloak goes through)

I don’t think there should be multiple options in the same slot for the same set (unless to accommodate different classes that would otherwise not qualify based on armor type).

I also think that while it is great to give the Deathknight set some love there is a new set launching this year and URs added to sets should probably be “Ancients”.

OrionW wrote:

Picc wrote: Just since the death knight set is getting some love.

What would people think of these gloves being part of the death knight set?

IMO thematically it works because these gloves are so similar in function to the UR deathknight gauthlets (+dmg vs +strength) plus it would make it technically possible to get a full death knight set bonus with this years tokens (if the cloak goes through)

I don’t think there should be multiple options in the same slot for the same set (unless to accommodate different classes that would otherwise not qualify based on armor type).

I also think that while it is great to give the Deathknight set some love there is a new set launching this year and URs added to sets should probably be “Ancients”.

I do agree. I like the idea but I believe that the DK items should remain at the UR level so that theses a set that can accommodate each classes with its pieces without the added cost of going into Relic +.

Tyraël The Just wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Picc wrote: Just since the death knight set is getting some love.

What would people think of these gloves being part of the death knight set?

IMO thematically it works because these gloves are so similar in function to the UR deathknight gauthlets (+dmg vs +strength) plus it would make it technically possible to get a full death knight set bonus with this years tokens (if the cloak goes through)

I don’t think there should be multiple options in the same slot for the same set (unless to accommodate different classes that would otherwise not qualify based on armor type).

I also think that while it is great to give the Deathknight set some love there is a new set launching this year and URs added to sets should probably be “Ancients”.

I do agree. I like the idea but I believe that the DK items should remain at the UR level so that theses a set that can accommodate each classes with its pieces without the added cost of going into Relic +.

There is precedent for upgraded UR set items with the viper strike daggers / Tamoras bracers.

You are correct. Didn’t think about those. I do think the bracers kinda flopped where as the Viper Strike really set a new set

NightGod wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.

Wizards: I suppose for extremely niche cases of Polymorph focused Wizards this is a decent item? But probably they would still rather have +4 to STR gloves because they will need a lot of melee to-hit bonuses ot be effective.

However by including ranged, these tokens offer interesting outlets for:

Ranged: Bards, Druids, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, and even potentially Mystic Stave using Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizards.

Wizards are no longer polymorphers after this year, so that even edge case wouldn't apply

Don’t forget about Mystic Staff Wizard builds

So I don't play a 1H melee class so I don't have a horse in this fight but it seems like there's a bit of an argument over mainly this expanded crit range aspect. What if instead of using expanded crit range which is too similar to Viv's, instead we add a new keyword ability? Something like:

Overpower X: If the slider rolls a natural 20 crit or is more than 10 over the target's AC, weapon deals X additional damage and heals the wielder for X.

This would give additional design space at all levels, an additional bonus for critting or having a strong emphasis on +hit, and an ability that gives the sword its own identity.

This weapon could be used to set the top end for the Overpower mechanic at say 8 or even 10. Then in ensuing years you have design space for say, a Rare weapon with Overpower 1 or 2, UR at 3 or 4, Relic at 5-6, or what-have-you.

I'd be good with a slid 20, or any crit, but making the DMs check how much someone hits hy is a lot of extra math.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I'd be good with a slid 20, or any crit, but making the DMs check how much someone hits hy is a lot of extra math.

That was why I locked the Overpower trigger at an even 10 as it's easier to do that math. Also if we're talking about a legendary, people can be responsible for their own token triggers. Wouldn't be the first time I've had to coach a DM on what my tokens do. Making it a keyword ability lets you put it on the DM tests as well.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I'd be good with a slid 20, or any crit, but making the DMs check how much someone hits hy is a lot of extra math.

Again, don't have a horse in this race, but I would think using just a slid 20 or any crit would also thematically get the point across for an ability if that's easiest for DM's.

It’s savage which is a type we’ve never seen before., maybe it deals 10 extra damage if you slide under a 15 and still hit? Like an anti crit