TOPIC: 2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES !

More ability ideas for the sword and in general:

Reaver - Gives the same ability as the "Figurine of Power: Reaver"

Savage - on hit the monster receives a -2 dmg debuff on all attacks it's next round. (lasts one round)

More ability ideas for the sword and in general:

Party Critical - decaled before attack. If a natural 20 is rolled/slid the player sacrifices their attack to empower the rest of the parties attack as crits.

The idea is to share the wealth/fun. Thematically imagine the character runs up to a dragon and successfully finds that one loose scale over the heart, and instead of stabbing it, they hold it open for everyone else to hit.

Mike Steele wrote:

Utaku wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.

Wizards: I suppose for extremely niche cases of Polymorph focused Wizards this is a decent item? But probably they would still rather have +4 to STR gloves because they will need a lot of melee to-hit bonuses ot be effective.

However by including ranged, these tokens offer interesting outlets for:

Ranged: Bards, Druids, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, and even potentially Mystic Stave using Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizards.

Wizards are no longer polymorphers after this year, so that even edge case wouldn't apply

Don’t forget about Mystic Staff Wizard builds

Don't forget +2 Staff of Power wielding Wizards.

Staff of Power has a 4.7 average damage wheel. We can go back to forgetting them

The more I think about it, the more I think Kilgore’s shouldn’t have expanded crit range at all. Leave that to the new 2H legendary so it can be all about damage, and also be a different build path for Fighter.

If done right, Kilgore’s could also be available to Barbarian

Disclaimer: this post has started to turn essay length, and I’ve written it in pieces from my phone. Not ideal, but it is what it is.

Thoughts on weapon balance, class legendary, and builds.

Matthew Hayward created a thread to talk about how weapons should interact with the legendary necks, so I don’t want to dive deep here, but I see two options - weapons either make a very narrow path to double down into one optimal build per class, or the weapons stay a little more generic and we let the class necks do the work.

I don’t find going deep into single class legendary stuff desirable - it has advantages if you play with the same group all the time, but when you start talking multiple legendaries tied to a single class, I see more arguments during class selection, and more cookie cutter builds at the top end.

So let’s think about a little more generic path with a question regarding fighters.

Given equal rarity of build, should 2H Fighter have a specialization that surpasses 1H in some meaningful way? Ex: Should 2H Fighter be the way to play for maximum damage? If yes, then 1H Fighter needs to deal less damage with Kilgore’s (but hopefully more damage then weapons like Asher’s and Thor’s) and do something else hopefully more than just AC.


Let’s say new Averon’s has an 18 average damage wheel and crits on an 18-20. That’s a lot of damage, and Barbarian is likely to lean into it because of class power And Bog’s. However, with that large of a wheel and Crit range, maybe someone playing fighter or Paladin wants it for a high damage build (or someone who mains Barbarian can still use their weapon if they have to switch class).

Now let’s say Kilgore’s has a 14 average damage wheel, ignores retribution damage, and hits incorp 100% of the time (powers used as non damage example only). For fighters it still has synergy with Viv’s, but it’s still not as much raw damage as the 2H option. However, if Thors and Asher’s were to remain unchanged, Kilgore’s would still have a damage advantage. Barbarians could choose less damage to take Kilgore’s, and it would be a damage upgrade over Ava’s.

This is the kind of balancing act we may need to keep the weapons popular enough to make, but it’s dependent on how the other weapons will look, and is honestly probably dependent on a very good generic legendary neck.

Endgame wrote: Disclaimer: this post has started to turn essay length, and I’ve written it in pieces from my phone. Not ideal, but it is what it is.

Thoughts on weapon balance, class legendary, and builds.

Matthew Hayward created a thread to talk about how weapons should interact with the legendary necks, so I don’t want to dive deep here, but I see two options - weapons either make a very narrow path to double down into one optimal build per class, or the weapons stay a little more generic and we let the class necks do the work.

I don’t find going deep into single class legendary stuff desirable - it has advantages if you play with the same group all the time, but when you start talking multiple legendaries tied to a single class, I see more arguments during class selection, and more cookie cutter builds at the top end.

So let’s think about a little more generic path with a question regarding fighters.

Given equal rarity of build, should 2H Fighter have a specialization that surpasses 1H in some meaningful way? Ex: Should 2H Fighter be the way to play for maximum damage? If yes, then 1H Fighter needs to deal less damage with Kilgore’s (but hopefully more damage then weapons like Asher’s and Thor’s) and do something else hopefully more than just AC.


Let’s say new Averon’s has an 18 average damage wheel and crits on an 18-20. That’s a lot of damage, and Barbarian is likely to lean into it because of class power And Bog’s. However, with that large of a wheel and Crit range, maybe someone playing fighter or Paladin wants it for a high damage build (or someone who mains Barbarian can still use their weapon if they have to switch class).

Now let’s say Kilgore’s has a 14 average damage wheel, ignores retribution damage, and hits incorp 100% of the time (powers used as non damage example only). For fighters it still has synergy with Viv’s, but it’s still not as much raw damage as the 2H option. However, if Thors and Asher’s were to remain unchanged, Kilgore’s would still have a damage advantage. Barbarians could choose less damage to take Kilgore’s, and it would be a damage upgrade over Ava’s.

This is the kind of balancing act we may need to keep the weapons popular enough to make, but it’s dependent on how the other weapons will look, and is honestly probably dependent on a very good generic legendary neck.

Making Kilgore’s a 2H blade is an interesting idea. You could even make the abilities identical to Viv’s. Viv’s would be the choice if you want to play a dwarf fighter style and Kilgore’s if you want to avoid AC and go savage on someone. Maybe put a max AC restriction on Kilgore’s.

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Disclaimer: this post has started to turn essay length, and I’ve written it in pieces from my phone. Not ideal, but it is what it is.

Thoughts on weapon balance, class legendary, and builds.

Matthew Hayward created a thread to talk about how weapons should interact with the legendary necks, so I don’t want to dive deep here, but I see two options - weapons either make a very narrow path to double down into one optimal build per class, or the weapons stay a little more generic and we let the class necks do the work.

I don’t find going deep into single class legendary stuff desirable - it has advantages if you play with the same group all the time, but when you start talking multiple legendaries tied to a single class, I see more arguments during class selection, and more cookie cutter builds at the top end.

So let’s think about a little more generic path with a question regarding fighters.

Given equal rarity of build, should 2H Fighter have a specialization that surpasses 1H in some meaningful way? Ex: Should 2H Fighter be the way to play for maximum damage? If yes, then 1H Fighter needs to deal less damage with Kilgore’s (but hopefully more damage then weapons like Asher’s and Thor’s) and do something else hopefully more than just AC.


Let’s say new Averon’s has an 18 average damage wheel and crits on an 18-20. That’s a lot of damage, and Barbarian is likely to lean into it because of class power And Bog’s. However, with that large of a wheel and Crit range, maybe someone playing fighter or Paladin wants it for a high damage build (or someone who mains Barbarian can still use their weapon if they have to switch class).

Now let’s say Kilgore’s has a 14 average damage wheel, ignores retribution damage, and hits incorp 100% of the time (powers used as non damage example only). For fighters it still has synergy with Viv’s, but it’s still not as much raw damage as the 2H option. However, if Thors and Asher’s were to remain unchanged, Kilgore’s would still have a damage advantage. Barbarians could choose less damage to take Kilgore’s, and it would be a damage upgrade over Ava’s.

This is the kind of balancing act we may need to keep the weapons popular enough to make, but it’s dependent on how the other weapons will look, and is honestly probably dependent on a very good generic legendary neck.

Making Kilgore’s a 2H blade is an interesting idea. You could even make the abilities identical to Viv’s. Viv’s would be the choice if you want to play a dwarf fighter style and Kilgore’s if you want to avoid AC and go savage on someone. Maybe put a max AC restriction on Kilgore’s.

+1 this

Instant non-“buy” at 2h. Cutting off half the audience.

Edit/ I guess if you make it not Fighter only barbs would use it.

Flik wrote: Instant non-“buy” at 2h. Cutting off half the audience.

Edit/ I guess if you make it not Fighter only barbs would use it.

I think the game shouldn’t just have fighters as sword and board which is why I liked this option (change the sword to 2H); with that said, you could go the other way and give the human fighter an ability on the card that only works with 1 handed weapons. I feel like the end result though is that you end up with two handed blades only being used by Barbarians and I am not sure that is a good idea.

This is an inflection point where you really define the scope of fighters going forward. If this is a one handed weapon that is going to be their thing from now on.

Just a new idea for a sword that has a wheel for 1 handed and a wheel for 2 handed. Which gives lots of flexibility to fighters.

This is just a quick conceptual mockup.. See Attachment

Note, I wasn’t saying Kilgore’s should be 2H. I was saying we should keep in mind the design space for other weapons.

On the other hand, if there is going to be a single target build for each class with single class legendary and mythic gear, we should start planning how that looks with Kilgore’s, so it can be used as a template for the single class Barbarian 2H weapon, etc.

Yow! Kilgor's got a lot less SAVAGE... While I think reducing the bonus to hit is fine for Legendary Fighters, the damage reduction and loss of a secondary special ability make it a lot less desirable to make.

Fighters could make the +3 and it's better than Welfor's damage.