TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Extremely Crazy question:

Should Bead of Greed just move to be the Vol reward UR? I can't think of another UR that would retain sales value through the year as much as a TE, and it wouldn't require creeping existing tokens to keep something special for Vols. Depending on demand, you could even have the 2026 vol reward token be Bead of Greed.

Even if numbers sold / rewarded are lower than BoB, Mythic Avarice could always be created with Omni Orbs

I agree it would prop up volunteer demand, but my concern would be demand for token sales from TD.

The last 8k auction funded with PYPs going for $51 to $56, and while this set looks more attractive right now than the 2024 set (which in hindsight was probably tuned a little too low from a power perspective), the TE should be the big driver of sales in 2025.

I can't speculate on TD sales like that without data. Given PYPs have been as low as $47 this year, TEs don't hold the price up 2 years in a row.

Could always have Bead of Greed as the Vol Reward for 2025 and make it a PYP in 2026. That way Vol's get first crack at the extra Treasure, but TD still gets all the sales for speculative purchases

+1 here. Making it volunteer first then PYP the following year would keep volunteer URs at high value.

Jeff Martin wrote: Why only DF? Leaving open the chance the DF will be able to Taunt more than once in a round.

Did you mean more than once in a room?

Fred K wrote:

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Extremely Crazy question:

Should Bead of Greed just move to be the Vol reward UR? I can't think of another UR that would retain sales value through the year as much as a TE, and it wouldn't require creeping existing tokens to keep something special for Vols. Depending on demand, you could even have the 2026 vol reward token be Bead of Greed.

Even if numbers sold / rewarded are lower than BoB, Mythic Avarice could always be created with Omni Orbs

I agree it would prop up volunteer demand, but my concern would be demand for token sales from TD.

The last 8k auction funded with PYPs going for $51 to $56, and while this set looks more attractive right now than the 2024 set (which in hindsight was probably tuned a little too low from a power perspective), the TE should be the big driver of sales in 2025.

I can't speculate on TD sales like that without data. Given PYPs have been as low as $47 this year, TEs don't hold the price up 2 years in a row.

Could always have Bead of Greed as the Vol Reward for 2025 and make it a PYP in 2026. That way Vol's get first crack at the extra Treasure, but TD still gets all the sales for speculative purchases

+1 here. Making it volunteer first then PYP the following year would keep volunteer URs at high value.

New UR Treasure Enhancers are routinely 50% or more of the PYPs selected during the year they appear.

This idea would lead to a substantial reduction, perhaps as much as 50%, in TDs token sales for the year.

TD could put a treasure enhancer as a volunteer token, but if they do it should not replace the existing plans.

Also - I believe TD has publicly committed to a TE release schedule including this bead and the next one. It shouldn't go back on its publicly stated plans for TE releases.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Extremely Crazy question:

Should Bead of Greed just move to be the Vol reward UR? I can't think of another UR that would retain sales value through the year as much as a TE, and it wouldn't require creeping existing tokens to keep something special for Vols. Depending on demand, you could even have the 2026 vol reward token be Bead of Greed.

Even if numbers sold / rewarded are lower than BoB, Mythic Avarice could always be created with Omni Orbs

I agree it would prop up volunteer demand, but my concern would be demand for token sales from TD.

The last 8k auction funded with PYPs going for $51 to $56, and while this set looks more attractive right now than the 2024 set (which in hindsight was probably tuned a little too low from a power perspective), the TE should be the big driver of sales in 2025.

I can't speculate on TD sales like that without data. Given PYPs have been as low as $47 this year, TEs don't hold the price up 2 years in a row.

Could always have Bead of Greed as the Vol Reward for 2025 and make it a PYP in 2026. That way Vol's get first crack at the extra Treasure, but TD still gets all the sales for speculative purchases

+1 here. Making it volunteer first then PYP the following year would keep volunteer URs at high value.

New UR Treasure Enhancers are routinely 50% or more of the PYPs selected during the year they appear.

This idea would lead to a substantial reduction, perhaps as much as 50%, in TDs token sales for the year.

TD could put a treasure enhancer as a volunteer token, but if they do it should not replace the existing plans.

Also - I believe TD has publicly committed to a TE release schedule including this bead and the next one. It shouldn't go back on its publicly stated plans for TE releases.

The proclimation from Jeff’s post was:

"Token of Über Avarice (name has not been finalized) is going to require the following tokens:
Charm of Avarice
2023 UR Bead of Bounty
The 2025 UR Treasure Enhancing Bead (name TBD)
The 2027 UR Treasure Enhancing Bead (name TBD)"

It doesn't say the 2025 URTE *isn't* a vol reward token (with full PYP release in 2026)

It’s a crazy suggestion that isn’t likely to get traction, but would solve the apparent need to creep vol tokens every year and still have the price drop by GHC

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Extremely Crazy question:

Should Bead of Greed just move to be the Vol reward UR? I can't think of another UR that would retain sales value through the year as much as a TE, and it wouldn't require creeping existing tokens to keep something special for Vols. Depending on demand, you could even have the 2026 vol reward token be Bead of Greed.

Even if numbers sold / rewarded are lower than BoB, Mythic Avarice could always be created with Omni Orbs

I agree it would prop up volunteer demand, but my concern would be demand for token sales from TD.

The last 8k auction funded with PYPs going for $51 to $56, and while this set looks more attractive right now than the 2024 set (which in hindsight was probably tuned a little too low from a power perspective), the TE should be the big driver of sales in 2025.

I can't speculate on TD sales like that without data. Given PYPs have been as low as $47 this year, TEs don't hold the price up 2 years in a row.

Could always have Bead of Greed as the Vol Reward for 2025 and make it a PYP in 2026. That way Vol's get first crack at the extra Treasure, but TD still gets all the sales for speculative purchases

+1 here. Making it volunteer first then PYP the following year would keep volunteer URs at high value.

New UR Treasure Enhancers are routinely 50% or more of the PYPs selected during the year they appear.

This idea would lead to a substantial reduction, perhaps as much as 50%, in TDs token sales for the year.

TD could put a treasure enhancer as a volunteer token, but if they do it should not replace the existing plans.

Also - I believe TD has publicly committed to a TE release schedule including this bead and the next one. It shouldn't go back on its publicly stated plans for TE releases.

The proclimation from Jeff’s post was:

"Token of Über Avarice (name has not been finalized) is going to require the following tokens:
Charm of Avarice
2023 UR Bead of Bounty
The 2025 UR Treasure Enhancing Bead (name TBD)
The 2027 UR Treasure Enhancing Bead (name TBD)"

It doesn't say the 2025 URTE *isn't* a vol reward token (with full PYP release in 2026)

It’s a crazy suggestion that isn’t likely to get traction, but would solve the apparent need to creep vol tokens every year and still have the price drop by GHC

It also doesn't say the 2025 URTE *isn't* a single token thrown into the treasure mix at Gen Con (with a full PYP release in 2026).

But you and I both know that if that happened, it would be a deviation from the announced plan.

Just like making it a volunteer reward and not a PyP in 2025 would be a deviation from the announced plan.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Extremely Crazy question:

Should Bead of Greed just move to be the Vol reward UR? I can't think of another UR that would retain sales value through the year as much as a TE, and it wouldn't require creeping existing tokens to keep something special for Vols. Depending on demand, you could even have the 2026 vol reward token be Bead of Greed.

Even if numbers sold / rewarded are lower than BoB, Mythic Avarice could always be created with Omni Orbs

I agree it would prop up volunteer demand, but my concern would be demand for token sales from TD.

The last 8k auction funded with PYPs going for $51 to $56, and while this set looks more attractive right now than the 2024 set (which in hindsight was probably tuned a little too low from a power perspective), the TE should be the big driver of sales in 2025.

I can't speculate on TD sales like that without data. Given PYPs have been as low as $47 this year, TEs don't hold the price up 2 years in a row.

Could always have Bead of Greed as the Vol Reward for 2025 and make it a PYP in 2026. That way Vol's get first crack at the extra Treasure, but TD still gets all the sales for speculative purchases

+1 here. Making it volunteer first then PYP the following year would keep volunteer URs at high value.

New UR Treasure Enhancers are routinely 50% or more of the PYPs selected during the year they appear.

This idea would lead to a substantial reduction, perhaps as much as 50%, in TDs token sales for the year.

TD could put a treasure enhancer as a volunteer token, but if they do it should not replace the existing plans.

Also - I believe TD has publicly committed to a TE release schedule including this bead and the next one. It shouldn't go back on its publicly stated plans for TE releases.

The proclimation from Jeff’s post was:

"Token of Über Avarice (name has not been finalized) is going to require the following tokens:
Charm of Avarice
2023 UR Bead of Bounty
The 2025 UR Treasure Enhancing Bead (name TBD)
The 2027 UR Treasure Enhancing Bead (name TBD)"

It doesn't say the 2025 URTE *isn't* a vol reward token (with full PYP release in 2026)

It’s a crazy suggestion that isn’t likely to get traction, but would solve the apparent need to creep vol tokens every year and still have the price drop by GHC

It also doesn't say the 2025 URTE *isn't* a single token thrown into the treasure mix at Gen Con (with a full PYP release in 2026).

But you and I both know that if that happened, it would be a deviation from the announced plan.

Just like making it a volunteer reward and not a PyP in 2025 would be a deviation from the announced plan.

If the TE Bead gets moved to the volunteer spot True Dungeon can kiss a crap ton of Token revenue good bye. Bad idea.

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Holy Symbol of Selinwa:
Can you Turn Undead in a non-combat room, for the healing effect?
Can you Turn Undead when there's no appropriate creature to turn, for the healing effect?

General comment:
This set of URs feels heavily skewed towards Spellcasters. I don't think anyone would argue that +2 Rod of Focus, Earcuff of the Cabal, and Eye Patch of the Aesir aren't for them. Holy Symbol of Selinwa, kinda; it's a Cleric exclusive, rather than general Spellcaster, but it's still of no use to anyone else. Bead of Celecia, I'd also argue so. While Barbarians, Paladins, and Rangers can use it, they gain little out of it: Barbarian already has all the Rages they need from Bog's and a Cleric; Paladin would rather take a stat or save bead than get a single-use heal for 15; and Ranger would also rather take a stat or save bead than heal another 5 (+healing bonus).
Is it intentional that 25% of the URs grant no utility to martial classes?

Thanks for all the comments over the past week. It is appreciated. The FAQ will get updated about the Holy Symbol.

Regarding URs = I am sorry you don't like the mix of URs for martial classes. There was no quota followed, but I did try to spread the love this year. I am going to try and do 3-4 class specific URs each year. Maybe 2026 will see some Fighter, Ranger or Monk love...

Jeff Martin wrote:
Thanks for all the comments over the past week. It is appreciated. The FAQ will get updated about the Holy Symbol.

Regarding URs = I am sorry you don't like the mix of URs for martial classes. There was no quota followed, but I did try to spread the love this year. I am going to try and do 3-4 class specific URs each year. Maybe 2026 will see some Fighter, Ranger or Monk love...

I do appreciate all the work and effort. You and the others constantly strive to try to keep the game fun and hear the desires of the community and incorporate them the best you can. Thank you all.

Lequinian wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Why only DF? Leaving open the chance the DF will be able to Taunt more than once in a round.

Did you mean more than once in a room?

Yes, I know that Abyssal Lenses of Taunting kind of does this already.

Wow...thanks all for the continuing excellent feedback. We should be posting another round very soon. Some changes coming:

Runestone Fitting Base is in! <=but it is back to Rares only
New Shield of Guarding effect = semi Shadowcloak power
Nightshade's Gloves = Big news that will cost me dearly! This token is getting reduced in power because we are going to nerf how the Rogue Neck item and Assassin Crossbow synergize -- stating in 2025. No change until then so y'all can enjoy the crazy damage for another 10 months.
+2 Rod of Focus got its damage cut a bit
DF Taunt Charm = now extends the Enhanced Crit range to "19-20" during round Taunt is activated
Coin of Temptation wording clarified (no killing the Rogue so you can use one! -- I am looking at you Bard)
Bead of Celecia = added 1/game

The Charm of Valkyrie's Kiss is going to replace the Death Knight Shirt as a volunteer token.

Jeff Martin wrote: Nightshade's Gloves = Big news that will cost me dearly! This token is getting reduced in power because we are going to nerf how the Rogue Neck item and Assassin Crossbow synergize -- stating in 2025. No change until then so y'all can enjoy the crazy damage for another 10 months.

Can I ask why this is necessary? Multiple other classes deal comparable damage to Rogues, so I'm trying to understand why there is a need to nerf the Rogue build that can compare to them. There was a recent thread discussing Assassin's Crossbow where the general experience of the community is that it's not causing any problems.

This is also going to really sting for any Rogues who have recently acquired Greater/Gregor's Gladiator Gloves, as all of the other decent Rogue weapons are one-handed.

Moving back to next year's UR design, Nightshade's Grim Gloves were already weaker than the crossbow as they only triggered on a 19-20 and required you to use up a very valuable slot on equipping them, please could they not be downpowered further after they already lost the +2 to Sneak Attacks bonus - otherwise, it's hard to imagine why they would see play over something like Death Knight Gauntlets which grant consistent and reliable bonuses during every round of combat.

Jeff Martin wrote: Nightshade's Gloves = Big news that will cost me dearly! This token is getting reduced in power because we are going to nerf how the Rogue Neck item and Assassin Crossbow synergize -- stating in 2025. No change until then so y'all can enjoy the crazy damage for another 10 months.

I feel like the best option is also the simplest: just change the section in the PHB that talks about stacking damage multipliers into something along the lines of "if you have multiple damage multipliers, only the highest one applies".