TOPIC: Dungeon Builder's Union Shirts.

I don't hear you complaining about the 40 hour week, the weekend, health care, etc., but then again, I never hear you not complaining about anything.<br />

I'd keep that under wraps.. there's no guarantee that we won't find ourselves in a similar boat in the future.<br /><br />and I agree with Brian... Unions certain have made a positive impact on our workplace with their efforts in the past<br /><br />(although now I find them a significant hindrance in a global economy..but ask GM about that)

The 40 hour work week is ridiculous too. People should be able to decide how much they want to work and for how much. In france it's actually illegal to work more then an arbitrary limit set by the government. There are even limits to overtime. That's just slavery by another name. Freedom means the ability to make your own choices and not be forced by some ridiculous nanny state.<br /><br />And as for the Union's supposedly glorious past. What has it done for us lately other than help kill some domestic companies out of ridiculous shortsighted greed?

They have to pay for all the union administration employees so they can keep their jobs.

Yeah, the glorious free market, the source of all joy and wonder.  Sure wish we had more 8 year olds losing limbs and lives in factory machines, all because we have the choice to work as much or as little as we want, and to get paid as much or as little as those beneficent factory owners want.<br />

There are still plenty of those in third world countries. There's an idea. Why don't we ship everyone in a union here in the states to Malaysia and Rwanda and they can help out the 8 year olds there. We certainly don't need them here anymore. Our 8 year olds are fine.

<br />And as for the Union's supposedly glorious past. What has it done for us lately other than help kill some domestic companies out of ridiculous shortsighted greed?<br />

<br /><br />nothing worse than what I can lay at the feet of AIG, Citigroup, etc.

I see it as a difference in intent. Those traders and associated morons were trying to grow the companies they worked for, recklessly but the goal was to bring more profit and pad the bottom line. If they benefited too, it was as a direct result of what they were bringing in. Unions on the otherhand are more like parasites now than anything else. Nothing they do actually improves the company. They simply feed on it and bring decay and rot. The big domestic car makers are the best example of this. They made it so that the companies they worked for just couldn't compete and have almost driven them out of business. There's a reason why unions make up a smaller and smaller % of the workforce and it's not because of union busting despite the paranoia. Companies with unions don't thrive and hire as many workers as those without them.

What 40 hour work week? I havent seen it since......ever. <br /><br />In the first third of the last century, or about up until WW2 or so unions were essential for protecting workers from giant moguls who had government in their pocket. They were an essential force for making sure that the average guy got a fair shot at a livable life and didn't have to tolerate being treated as a subhuman just to make a living and support a family. Unions were an essential part of the development of America. THINGS CHANGE. The government has now (in the last 50 years and still stepping) stepped in in a massive way to protect the average guy (or girl now too) from their boss or bosses' boss. Laws have been in place for decades to ensure that people are treated fairly in the work place and that rights of all kinds are preserved. It works, well and sometimes too well, but that is the price. <br /><br />Unions today are self serving and self perpetuating entities that have no real purpose other than to work for their own survival, severely decrease our ability to compete globally, caused localized avoidance behavor by big business in parts of the country where union mentality flourishes, and are corrupt through and through. Who could impartially appreciate the SEIU for example? Who other than a teacher could possibly like the Teacher's Union, the bastion of protection for people you don't want teaching your kids (No offense to the tons of dedicated and wonderful teachers out there, but the union protects the bad apples - come here and see it if you doubt). I see both sides of this, but unions are more obsolete than outhouses and should end up in one. <br /><br />

Teacher's Union protects good teachers.  Maybe some of them have protected bad where you are at and if that's the case maybe some of that local leadership needs to change.  My sister is a teacher.  She was in a situation with a principal that was completely incapable of doing his job.  She was a first year teacher and had sixth graders that were problem children, but if she sent them to the principal nothing happened.  He never punished kids or set any kind of regulation because he had been a principal at an all kindergarten school and thought that if you rang some chimes all the little delinquents (not being mean here some of them actually had records) would sit still and be good and be quiet.  The long and short was that this schmuck was going to get my sister fired because he couldn't do his job.  She got in trouble for even trying to discipline her class and its not like she broke out the paddle and whacked them a few either.  <br />The union stepped in and stood up for her.  They were willing to do what was needed to help her fight this guy and it worked.  She kept her job and a year later he got sent packing.  <br />I'm not saying that all unions are good or even that all parts of good unions are good...just don't lump everything together in one big heap.  There are still good unions and there are still unions that do good.<br /><br />Jennifer

A bad principal can ruin the entire school. No doubt about it. In the case you describe, the ruling could have fallen to the local school board or school committee though. Management of a too wimpy or rogue principal is their job. It shouldn't have needed the union. Wherever you have groups of people, you will have good groups and bad groups. That includes local union groups. I am talking about the actions of unions on a national scale, not localized small groups.

Everything you need to know about the horrors of the teacher's union can be found in this article<br /><br /> Cliky <br /><br />I originally read about this in the NYT and this link is from huffpo. You can be sure of one thing. When the NYT and huffpo both hit a story like this, you know the union's got off the deep end.<br /><br />Not to mention the union has been blocking crap like Merit Pay for ages and other things. The unions aren't out there to protect GOOD teachers. Their goal is in effect to protect shitty ones as a line in the sand. It's like how the ACLU claims to protect all of our civil liberties but tends to spend all of their time standing up for scumbags for the most part. They argue that that's where the slippery slope is so they take the fringe cases. Franky, I wish they'd consider that maybe if they simply defended the good ones, we wouldn't have so many bad ones.