TOPIC: Try discussing here....

balthasar wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: @Belinda - it’s my understanding that animal trials were halted early, and the test process that normally takes a couple years was shortened. There wasn’t a lot testing around interactions with other drugs or with various pre-existing conditions. I’m not saying no testing was done, but in software terms it seems like we’re using an alpha or maybe beta tested vaccine.

But I would think that if the FDA thought it had been adequately tested it would be approved for use, not just given emergency use authorization based on lack of treatments, which we now know existed since the beginning. So technically they should be retracting their EUA.

Your question might be more appropriately asked of the FDA what more testing they require, because I’m not a doctor

The vaccines have the same testing, whether it is an EUA or normal approval. The EUA only speeds up manufacturing and administrative processes. The main difference is that it allows for production of the vaccine at the same time as testing occurs, saving a ton of time. If it isn't found to be safe, they destroy what what was produced.

vaccine.unchealthcare.org/science/vaccine-approval/whats-the-difference-between-fda-emergency-use-authorization-and-fda-approval/

Thank you for the link.

Went to Panera for lunch today. I didn't wear a mask at all (brought it with me if they asked me to put one on), and I was surprised that I was the only customer i saw who wasn't wearing one (other than those who were eating/drinking).

balthasar wrote: The vaccines have the same testing, whether it is an EUA or normal approval. The EUA only speeds up manufacturing and administrative processes. The main difference is that it allows for production of the vaccine at the same time as testing occurs, saving a ton of time. If it isn't found to be safe, they destroy what what was produced.

vaccine.unchealthcare.org/science/vaccine-approval/whats-the-difference-between-fda-emergency-use-authorization-and-fda-approval/

Thank you for this link, balthasar. The graphic is particularly helpful, because it shows how the time savings with an EUA comes from parallel processing, not skipping steps.

bpsymington wrote: Went to Panera for lunch today. I didn't wear a mask at all (brought it with me if they asked me to put one on), and I was surprised that I was the only customer i saw who wasn't wearing one (other than those who were eating/drinking).

Where do you live? Here in Bloomington IN, which lifted it's restrictions well after most of Indiana, relatively few people are wearing masks inside any establishments I've been in.

Mike Steele wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Went to Panera for lunch today. I didn't wear a mask at all (brought it with me if they asked me to put one on), and I was surprised that I was the only customer i saw who wasn't wearing one (other than those who were eating/drinking).

Where do you live? Here in Bloomington IN, which lifted it's restrictions well after most of Indiana, relatively few people are wearing masks inside any establishments I've been in.

Here in the DC area, basically everyone still uses masks - I haven’t seen anyone indoors unmasked, though I don’t go out much given I have small children and one at high risk.

Mike Steele wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Went to Panera for lunch today. I didn't wear a mask at all (brought it with me if they asked me to put one on), and I was surprised that I was the only customer i saw who wasn't wearing one (other than those who were eating/drinking).

Where do you live? Here in Bloomington IN, which lifted it's restrictions well after most of Indiana, relatively few people are wearing masks inside any establishments I've been in.

I live in LA. Wearing masks has been very widespread and accepted. On Tuesday most mask requirements were lifted for people who have been vaxxed. They will likely also be lifting mask requirements for workers soon if all are vaxxed.

I brought my mask with me - if a business asks people to mask up, no problem. Masks are still required in some circumstances, like health care and public transit.

Mike Steele wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Went to Panera for lunch today. I didn't wear a mask at all (brought it with me if they asked me to put one on), and I was surprised that I was the only customer i saw who wasn't wearing one (other than those who were eating/drinking).

Where do you live? Here in Bloomington IN, which lifted it's restrictions well after most of Indiana, relatively few people are wearing masks inside any establishments I've been in.

Considering we are at 38% fully vaccinated here in Indiana, that would be concerning to me.

balthasar wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Went to Panera for lunch today. I didn't wear a mask at all (brought it with me if they asked me to put one on), and I was surprised that I was the only customer i saw who wasn't wearing one (other than those who were eating/drinking).

Where do you live? Here in Bloomington IN, which lifted it's restrictions well after most of Indiana, relatively few people are wearing masks inside any establishments I've been in.

Considering we are at 38% fully vaccinated here in Indiana, that would be concerning to me.

I'm concerned, but not surprised. Every time I would go shopping or stop for gas I would see at least two people not wearing a mask, even last year when we were in the thick of it. Not to mention all of those who were "wearing" a mask.

balthasar wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Went to Panera for lunch today. I didn't wear a mask at all (brought it with me if they asked me to put one on), and I was surprised that I was the only customer i saw who wasn't wearing one (other than those who were eating/drinking).

Where do you live? Here in Bloomington IN, which lifted it's restrictions well after most of Indiana, relatively few people are wearing masks inside any establishments I've been in.

Considering we are at 38% fully vaccinated here in Indiana, that would be concerning to me.

And yet, the numbers show little cause for concern. Case numbers, positivity rates and deaths in Indiana continue to plummet since the COVID restrictions were eased. Nearly all counties are in Blue category (best), with just 7 in yellow (second best). Here in Monroe County, positive cases are in the single digits, positivity test rate is low, and there have only been 8-9 deaths attributable to COVID in the last three months.

Keep in mind, the vaccinated rate is only part of the story. Everyone that has had COVID (even those that never realized they had it) have antibodies in their system that are more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID.

Mike Steele wrote:
Keep in mind, the vaccinated rate is only part of the story. Everyone that has had COVID (even those that never realized they had it) have antibodies in their system that are more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID.

While it is LIKELY that there are antibodies in people's systems that they are blissfully unaware of, I would caution against using words like "everyone" when it comes to the human immune system.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:
Keep in mind, the vaccinated rate is only part of the story. Everyone that has had COVID (even those that never realized they had it) have antibodies in their system that are more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID.

While it is LIKELY that there are antibodies in people's systems that they are blissfully unaware of, I would caution against using words like "everyone" when it comes to the human immune system.

Have you seen studies that say that some percentage of people that get COVID don't have antibodies in their system? This study looked at 30,000 people and made no mention of anyone getting COVID and not having antibodies.

www.healthline.com/health-news/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-19-what-we-know#How-natural-immunity-works-after-COVID-19-develops

This study titled "Study Finds Nearly Everyone Who Recovers From COVID-19 Makes Coronavirus Antibodies" of around 350 people with COVID showed all but one woman and her daughter had antibodies within 20 days of their first COVID symptoms.

directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/05/07/study-finds-nearly-everyone-who-recovers-from-covid-19-makes-coronavirus-antibodies/

So, point taken, I will change my sentence from "everyone" to "nearly everyone".

My main point is still valid, to look at the percentage of the population with immunity (or at least strong resistance) to COVID, you have to not only look at the percentage vaccinated, but also the percentage that have had COVID (subtracting a fraction of a percent for those that have had COVID but might not have antibodies).

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:
Keep in mind, the vaccinated rate is only part of the story. Everyone that has had COVID (even those that never realized they had it) have antibodies in their system that are more effective than a vaccine at preventing COVID.

While it is LIKELY that there are antibodies in people's systems that they are blissfully unaware of, I would caution against using words like "everyone" when it comes to the human immune system.

And that adds 10% at best to the total, since roughly 32 million Americans have tested positive. We don't know how many of that group got the vaccine as well, so you can't be sure how man more people are covered. Numbers went down last summer, so a downward trend is a combination of that and vaccinations. The true test is going to be this fall.