TOPIC: Let's talk Loki - Spoilers

Lodestone (KH) wrote: The guy in the check-in room struggling with the TVA agent was not pruned just put in a chokehold. I saw an Easter egg video that indicated he was the same guy (with shorter hair and a fluffier mustache) that was watching the timeline screen at the end of Episode 3 when all the bombs went off.

So far, my general understanding is that there are little changes and quirks in the timeline but those don't cause any lasting variance. Mobius mentioned that stepping on a leaf wasn't going to create a new timeline.

My rough understanding of Sylvie is that Loki, especially as a child, was even more gender fluid and probably shifted into and out of different personas growing up. In the movies they implied baby Loki could permanently transform itself as a sort of reflex - like taking on the warmer skin tones and becoming less frost giant when touched by Odin. So I suspect that given what we know about differences in history that Loki learned about the valkyries or something and just became a girl right then. The regular Loki grew out of this and reverted to a boy form. The Sylvie version leaned more into this identity, maybe going on and on about being a valkyrie to the point where they sat her down and told her she wasn't really Asgardian but was adopted. They may have played up how she could become a hero if she wanted - she certainly seemed to react strongly to the guy being choked later. Anyway, she probably went out to play on the balcony and dreamt of being a hero. And because a Loki couldn't "become a hero" or even "be told they were adopted" a variance was created and the TVA showed up. After that Sylvie didn't get the magic training (probably would have been the teen years) and was so traumatized from being ripped from her home she lost the ability to transform. And/or she became locked into this identity of being the hero that has to bring down the horrible bureaucracy. I think there's more to the background of the characters than what they have time to show, but the above kind of covers why they might have cut that timeline at that particular point.

The other Loki variants shown earlier seemed to be ones where Loki achieved something, and going to the Tour de France and being the fan that knocked a bunch of cyclists over was OK, but winning it was "wrong". Fighting Hulk was OK, but becoming a Loki-Hulk was "wrong".

So you go to food trucks every day and you start really liking the one with tacos. On the second or third day you haven't really changed anything important. You ate some food and it didn't have much consequence. On the fifth day you've established an ongoing pattern and you diverge from the true timeline where you just kind of randomly choose a truck. So it may not be about doing a particular thing, but developing a pattern over time. Just a thought.

This seems to operate under the assumption that what the TVA was saying about variants is the truth though. That is the last thing I think we should do. Someone or something setup fake robot gods and lied to everyone (or at least most everyone) that they were created by the TVA. I don't know why we should trust that they are 'pruning varriants' vs just grabbing anyone they felt were a threat or just anyone they felt like. They have a power greater than infinity stones so they can do pretty much whatever they want and say they are doing it for the noble reason of protecting the sacred timeline. We haven't a clue how much of what they said is true, but we do what they have said that isn't true.

If memory serves, Kang has a place outside of the time stream from which he can operate (Limbo). If so, is it possible the infinity stones don't work there due to being removed from the reality in which they were created? I know that is a stretch, but I feel like everything in the Marvel Comics universe is in play. Also, any speculation as to the inclusion of what looks like a destroyed Avengers Tower in the background of the end credits scene?

It is one of the times the avengers failed either avenger 1 or 2, is my guess. It is a doomed place in that universe and so the Loki’s can hide there. Just a guess but I still stickling with the Loki’s are setting up to destroy the TVA, if two Loki figured it out then it seems likely other Loki did as well.

balthasar wrote: If memory serves, Kang has a place outside of the time stream from which he can operate (Limbo). If so, is it possible the infinity stones don't work there due to being removed from the reality in which they were created? I know that is a stretch, but I feel like everything in the Marvel Comics universe is in play. Also, any speculation as to the inclusion of what looks like a destroyed Avengers Tower in the background of the end credits scene?

That's what I was thinking. It may be that they're not more powerful than Infinity Stones (Gems), but just that the Infinity Stones are inert because they aren't in their home reality/dimension.

balthasar wrote: If memory serves, Kang has a place outside of the time stream from which he can operate (Limbo).

There's a certain Russian mutant that would disagree with Kang operating out of Limbo.

Grizwald wrote:

balthasar wrote: If memory serves, Kang has a place outside of the time stream from which he can operate (Limbo).

There's a certain Russian mutant that would disagree with Kang operating out of Limbo.

Kang has escaped there multiple times in the comics, it wouldn't surprise me if that is where he is based now.

I really liked this episode.

jedibcg wrote: I really liked this episode.

Heck yeah!

Really liked Old Loki in particular.

And the "we're stronger than we think" line that was pretty revealing of Loki's continuing shift in attitude.

I really liked Old Loki as well, and I really liked how Loki, Sylvia, and Mobius are forming a real friendship (and more in the case of Loki & Sylvia).

I both loved the Frog Thor appearance and at the same time felt quite sorry for him. So close to Mjolnir (or perhaps Frogjolnir although it seems to large for that) but never able to make contact - I wonder if it's Thor as a frog or the separate character Throg. And even though I missed it, it's neat that they included the Thanoscopter.

It is sounding very much like Kang is the person behind the TVA, I won't be surprised if the final episode leads directly into the next Ant Man & the Wasp movie.

I'm not sure how serious they are with the Loki/Sylvie romance angle, but if they stick with it I find it hilarious that the only person in the multiverse that Loki can fall in love with is himself.

Josh M. wrote: I'm not sure how serious they are with the Loki/Sylvie romance angle, but if they stick with it I find it hilarious that the only person in the multiverse that Loki can fall in love with is himself.

It is very Loki, imo. Because who can trust a Loki? We saw that they generally cannot even trust themselves most of time. I think Loki can love folks....it just really who can love him. He loved his adopted mother they have shown. And he love/hates Thor, I think we have seen. But does Thor love him back? Maybe, but I think he more tolerates him (mostly of the time) and values him, but fat Thor wasn't upset that his brother was killed by Thanos, he was sad that he didn't go for the head....or at least that is what it seemed to me. Or maybe Thor has just morned Loki's death enough in the past that he doesn't truly believe his brother is gone. Sorry I went on the tangent that I didn't mean to start on.

jedibcg wrote:

Josh M. wrote: I'm not sure how serious they are with the Loki/Sylvie romance angle, but if they stick with it I find it hilarious that the only person in the multiverse that Loki can fall in love with is himself.

It is very Loki, imo. Because who can trust a Loki? We saw that they generally cannot even trust themselves most of time. I think Loki can love folks....it just really who can love him. He loved his adopted mother they have shown. And he love/hates Thor, I think we have seen. But does Thor love him back? Maybe, but I think he more tolerates him (mostly of the time) and values him, but fat Thor wasn't upset that his brother was killed by Thanos, he was sad that he didn't go for the head....or at least that is what it seemed to me. Or maybe Thor has just morned Loki's death enough in the past that he doesn't truly believe his brother is gone. Sorry I went on the tangent that I didn't mean to start on.

I think Thor absolutely loves his brother. He was horrified and traumatized when he died. Going for the head when he had the chance would have at least Avenged Loki. Thor had serious PTSD in Endgame and was just crushed by the weight of everything....in the span of like a week his dad died, his homeworld blew up, he killed his sister, his brother died trying to save him, half of his people were murdered, and then he failed at the one thing he'd always seen himself as able to do successfully, being a hero. He was focusing on the final trauma, but that's not at all the only blow his psyche had taken.